Sankaku Channel/Rating System Discussion

Here's a new topic for debate; panties.
Note: Not swimsuits or armor or etc.
I think that panty shots, especially those that show the crotch should be questionable.
Essentially:
Safe = https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/4288827
questionable = https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/4323614
Thoughts?

They both look questionable to me.

ALAKTORN said:
They both look questionable to me.

Agreed. I go by a pretty simple rating scheme which seems to work.
Safe: You could show family, friends, and coworkers. Could be background on a work computer.
Questionable: Anything sexually suggestive. You could find it as one of those sexy posters at a gimmick shop in the mall. You wouldn't show it to your family or co workers, but might not care about friends.
Explicit: Anything blatantly sexual. Exposed sexual organs, sexual fluids, ect. A girl pleasuring herself through clothes would still be considered explicit, even without anything being revealed.

Decal said:
I go by a pretty simple rating scheme which seems to work...

I prefer "your System" too. Its simple and works fine

EDIT:
To everyone who feels involved and qualified: please make a proposal/suggestion for updating page: https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/wiki/show?title=help%3A_ratings

then we can vote and decide which way to go.

I don't know that I'm qualified, but I definitely feel involved. This is my proposal and will not object to edits.

It's basically a re-write of my earlier post, just more "official" sounding.

*******************************************************

Uploaded files should be rated as Safe, Questionable or Explicit.

Images marked as SAFE are acceptable to be seen by all ages. Fully clothed characters are considered safe as well as most swimsuits and modest bikinis. Only the tamest of bra & panty images are safe and a neck-high bath or opaque steamy shower could be safe too, however use discretion when nudity is involved.

Use the QUESTIONABLE rating for images that are considered too sexy for Safe without showing actual nudity. This includes but is not limited to skin-tight outfits, micro & sling bikinis, wet clingy clothes, excessive cleavage, erect nipples and cleft_of_venus or cameltoe. Suggestive poses such as bent_over or spread_legs should be at least Questionable. Nude characters are acceptable if the nipples and vagina are obscured by something other than obvious censoring. An arm, hair or object covering the vagina could be questionable; a mosaic or black bar covering the vagina should be explicit.

The EXPLICIT rating is for blatant showing of genitalia and female nipples. Images that do not show nudity that will use the explicit rating include but are not limited to actual depiction or suggestion of masturbation, all types of sexual intercourse, urinating, semen, rape, bestiality, futanari, violence and anything else that may be considered extreme.

For borderline images search the character or the scenario to get an idea on how similar images are rated.

*******************************************************

Thoughts? Omissions? Additions?

For what it is worth, thatsNotSafe's definitions seem to be ones I broadly concur with.

I still think the switch to R15 and R18 naming might be a future possibility too. Although conventionally R15 would normally include toplessness.

I also agree with thatsNotSafe's proposal, mainly because it bothered me a lot that nipples were not explicit, but questionable.

The only thing that could be a problem may be that the ratio heavily swaps into one direction, in the worst case to the point, that every post is just explicit (user-laziness?).

Edit: Also botinflux, if other boorus use different ratings.

I similarly agree with thatsNotSafe's guidelines and proposal. Although I personally feel that it could be more specific for each category, it does a great job in an overall context. I am under the impression that if the topic becomes to greatly argued over based on nuances, we will be without a rule by the end. Any complaints we may have are likely down to small personal preferences based on our cultures and views. The proposed guideline is concise, yet flexible.

As an argument toward the "user-laziness" thing, I'd rather see everyone default to explicit and the community change the rating. This rule clarification was intended for those who were already putting in the effort of accuracy.

Decal said:
As an argument toward the "user-laziness" thing, I'd rather see everyone default to explicit and the community change the rating.

Agreed. And the nipples argument was the whole reason this post was started in the first place. I agree with the general system too.

Which I'll quote in a funnier way (please don't get angry):

Safe: hey kids, look at this.
Questionable: Hey johnny, look what I found! you can almost see her nipples!!!
Explicit: Go away, I'm busy. *fap fap fap*

I may be minority here, but I agree with current definition of Questionable rating, which is as follows:

"Questionable
Anything that isn't safe or explicit. This is the great middle area, and since it includes unrated posts, you shouldn't really expect anything one way or the other when browsing questionable posts. Includes toplessness. May include non-sexual full-frontal nudity."

..meaning I don't have to rate anything explicit that only shows female toplessness with nipples in context of (innocent?) fanservice and not an explicit sexual act.
I'd like for it to stay this way.

^So you think Post #1312505 is correct to be “questionable”? I don’t know myself what I think, but if the wording “questionable” was changed to R15 I guess I’d agree with that more easily.

Considering the ammount of fanservice in anime these days and general purpose of this site (seriously, what else would anyone expect to see when coming here? Safebooru exists for a reason), *yes*.

ALAKTORN said:
^So you think Post #1312505 is correct to be “questionable”? I don’t know myself what I think, but if the wording “questionable” was changed to R15 I guess I’d agree with that more easily.

This is pretty much the point I was going to make but I found a different image. The actual image doesn't matter, but here's my line of thinking.

https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/1312505

If 100 people were asked, "Is this innocent or sexual" 50% may say "Innocent" and 50% "Sexual"

I like bare breasted nipples as a cutoff because it takes the guesswork out of the equation.

So you see nipples, yes or no? 100% would say "Yes" -> Explicit

My line of thinking generally follows rules estabilished by anime overall.

Vagina and penis shots are pretty much exclusive to hentai, as in porn, which is explicit.

Nipple shots are more or less exclusive to either BD releases or premium TV stations (like AT-X) of certain animes which have fanservice as a selling point, but these aren't pornography.

I believe we should take the context of original work for rating. Of course, I only mention anime as a source, meaning we'd need to take a slighlty different approach for fan artwork.
If a show isn't pornographic in nature, I don't see any reason to rate anything coming directly from anime/manga as anything more than questionable...well, maybe with a few exceptions though I can't really think of many right now, perhaps this: https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/951394 since it's porn with plot.
EDIT: https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/4206037 this one is better, since it's To Love Ru and not technically porn, but it's been on the border of crossing that line for a good while.

As for fan artwork....well, here's how I see it.
Sometimes I tend to search for stuff that's not porn by using -rating:e. Porn is almost always rated explicit so it's generally a good way to filter it out. When non-pornografic images are getting rated as explicit, I miss some search results. Blacklisting explicit tags isn't really an option when I only do such specific searches every once in a while.

What I consider a cutoff are visible genital (even if mosaicly censored), sex fluids, vaginal insertion, masturbation with clear visibility of the act (as in not when we see character doing this benath layer of clothes, blanket, etc, or when facing back to us), sexual intercourse and other several related stuff that are just plain too gross to be considered questionable (ahegao comes to mind).

TL;DR- in my opinion "just nipples" fanservice devalued to the point where it could be considered a norm and rating it explicit is going too far. Compare my recent webm uploads with all this source filmmaker shit this tag gets flooded with, I wouldn't put these on the same level.

thatsNotSafe said:
I like bare breasted nipples as a cutoff because it takes the guesswork out of the equation.

So you see nipples, yes or no? 100% would say "Yes" -> Explicit

... which is concise and easy to follow as a guideline.

TheSwordUser said:
My line of thinking generally follows rules estabilished by...

... and a lengthy personal view (and I mean no offense by that) that makes an image severity objective on an individual basis.

Decal said:
... Although I personally feel that it could be more specific for each category, it does a great job in an overall context. I am under the impression that if the topic becomes to greatly argued over based on nuances, we will be without a rule by the end. Any complaints we may have are likely down to small personal preferences based on our cultures and views. The proposed guideline is concise, yet flexible...

I don't think the nipple thing one way or the other is going to crush any ones world. An exposed nipple in one rating or the other is still easy to find. I support thatsNotSafe's proposal only for ease of definition and a clearly defined cutoff. I agree with TheSwordUser that it can be subjective, but that's also why we're in this discussion in the first place.

I think we can all agree that anything more sexual than bare breasts with exposed nipples is explicit and anything less is at most questionable. How does everyone view the nipple question? Again, I view explicit for ease of category. Lets focus and come to a consensus before this just dies out as a topic.

I think for objective standardization bare breasts & nipples should be explicit.

I can see the point TheSwordUser is making, but since the channel isn't about anime-only, I would take the much broader/objetive approach.

I forgot I posted on previous page as well. I misunderstood what System meant by his idea of rating.

Maybe there should be some sort of ESRB styled rating for this, because..seriously
https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/4365124 (breasts)

https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/4370325 (sex)
https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/4185702 (gore)

https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/4364660 (breasts)

https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/4368194 (sex)

I can't imagine putting these images on the same level when difference in content is pretty large. As much as creating separate rating just for nipples seems to be not enough of justification for this imo, maybe this would be for the best?

A fourth rating between Q and E or Q and S could maybe a solution?

There will always be borderline cases and disagreements on the most appropriate rating for images regardless of how many categories there are. Bright lines of demarcation that everyone will agree with are impossible. Everyone has a different view on when an image crosses the line into questionable or pornographic. My view is that safe images should be images where there is wide agreement that the images are safe, explicit should be where there is wide agreement that the images are pornographic, and questionable should be where there is some disagreement on if it is pornographic or not. based on the discussion it seem that exposed nipples and nudity without a clear view of a vagina or penis falls into the third category and is most appropriately labeled questionable.

Steinkauz said:
A fourth rating between Q and E or Q and S could maybe a solution?

I don't know. It sound good in theory but I think that this would cause way more problems than it would fix. Too much confusion at what would go where.

thatsNotSafe said:
I think for objective standardization bare breasts & nipples should be explicit.

And when it at least comes to the people who care enough to post about it, it seems that the majority want female breasts and nipples to be rated explicit.

I believe an earlier argument claimed that it should stay questionable because a fair amount are already labeled questionable; but I can't help but wonder if that was intentional or just out of laziness or because they also weren't sure how to rate it. Questionable is the default rating for all posts if you don't manually change the rating after all.

TheSwordUser said:
I can't imagine putting these images on the same level when difference in content is pretty large. As much as creating separate rating just for nipples seems to be not enough of justification for this imo, maybe this would be for the best?

I think you're stressing the nuances of the art and its various fetishes. While they are all explicit, they are not necessarily equal in the eyes of viewers. Yet they all are similar in the fact that most people who like this stuff would rub one out to it. Don't look at this from an art perspective, but a sexual perspective.
Safe - Nice pictures, no one, save some strange individuals, will beat off to it.
Questionable - Most people would just consider is sexually suggestive, like a bra ad, and admire it. A small few sexually charged individuals would beat off to it.
Explicit - Free game because the expectation is to yank your chain to it.

Ultimately, does anyone in this thread have the power to actually make this feature/rule change, or are we just waxing philosophically?

Hello community.
This is a Mix of rules from other Pages and my Opinion.
I hope its helpful...

E: vore, guro, sex, semen, scat, fellatio, cunnilingus, buttjob, paizuri, penis, vagina, vibrator_under_clothes, masturbation (even by full clothed chracter), <= no need to explain that, right?

Q: breast_grab, ass_grab, bra, nipple_slip, nipples, pantsu, panchira, about_to_be_raped, tentacle_under_clothes (or swimsuit), sexually_suggestive, injury, blood, micro_bikini, bikini, urine, <= most of this is Ecchi, you know it from anime, manga, game and so on

S: everything without erotic or violence

I hope i haven´t forget a important tag, it helps a little bit and most of you will agree with it.
If there is any question, just ask.

Thanks for reading.

Decal said:
Ultimately, does anyone in this thread have the power to actually make this feature/rule change, or are we just waxing philosophically?

System does, ALAKTORN does, me does.

Steinkauz, System, ALAKTORN, it's up to you guys. It seems the majority draw the line down to the nipple with exposure being Explicit. I don't see this debate going much further.

Seems so. Then thatsNotSafe's proposal it is. If someone feels the urge to update the corresponding wikipage, feel free to do so. If not, I'll do it later myself.

I took care of it.

https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/wiki/show?title=help%3A_ratings

I feel like I'm published now, but I don't think I'm going to list it on my resume.

Looks good, thanks and good job! If anyone has any additions to the new guidelines, please feel free to use this thread again.

Just read them– these seem contradictory: “Use the QUESTIONABLE rating for […] cleft_of_venus or cameltoe.” and “Clear outlines of the vagina […] would be EXPLICIT.”

cleft_of_venus sounds like something that should be explicit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pudendal_cleft. Don’t know about cameltoe, but I consider a cameltoe as “clear outlines of the vagina”.

Edit: maybe the “erect nipples” under questionable should also be specified to be “erect nipples under clothes”.

I was wondering about bondange and bdsm, should these be mentioned one way or the other? You could argue that bondage should always be at least questionable, but currently Post #4381107 is rated safe.