Sankaku Channel/Rating System Discussion

Could we get a detailed rating system explanation. I was going through changing pictures with partial nudity (breasts showing full nipples or more) but was then given an E-mail stating

"Uploads without penis, vagina, semen, sex or guro are questionable, not explicit."

Is there a place where this is explicitly stated?

ALAKTORN Edit: https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/wiki/show?title=help%3A_ratings

This is wrong. Exposed female nipples are explicit. Covered female nipples and genitals would normally be questionable.

I thought there was a definition in the tagging guidelines/rating help wiki?

Of course it is all open to user discussion if there is such a demand.

I was thinking of bringing this up myself. I found the rules in two places.

https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/wiki/show?title=howto%3Aupload

https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/wiki/show?title=help%3A_ratings

Quoted from the above links: "an image of two naked characters is questionable" and "Questionable includes toplessness. May include non-sexual full-frontal nudity."

I've never uploaded anything new, but I have re-rated quite a bit. After re-reading what's written I see I haven't been following them to the letter. I've loosely defined questionable as not technically NSFW but hooo-boy it's pretty damn close. I've been using the female nipple as my cutoff point between Questionable and Explicit.

Sideboob, underboob, nude with an arm/towel/hair covering the nipple I've rated questionable. I've left bare buttocks in questionable and re-rated the posts explicit that have labia or mons visible. I've left clothed cameltoe in questionable, but if I can see vagina details under clothes I'll mark as explicit. I'd tend to rate "flossing" or "pussy wedgie" in explicit as well.

I'll take the pose in consideration too. Underwear could be anything really. Standing in panties could be safe or maybe questionable, but legs spread with the crotch taking most of the frame would be questionable or explicit. I've left playful girl-girl groping in questionable, but rated the forcible rape-y type in explicit.

I also try to take the whole picture into context as well. For example a nipple slip in lingerie on a bed implying sex I'd be inclined to call it explicit. An accidental nip-slip in a bikini playing volleyball implying "oops" I would call questionable.

I've re-rated over 11,000 and haven't received any emails. I've been more comfortable re-rating older posts and posts that don't specifically name an uploading user. That may have something to do with it.

I think my system is fairly solid, but I'll do what the community decides. I do think the definition of Questionable could stand to be re-written to be more clear though.

I think I agree with you thatsNotSafe. It also depends on the “theme” of the image rather than strictly by what’s shown.

Awesome, I'll forward this little forum post to the contributor who sent me that E-mail saying I was wrong then.

I would say the cut-off at present is any visible genitals or nipples would go to explicit. Other themes are open to interpretation.

I am half tempted to propose switching to R15 and R18, with toplessness and eroticism going into R15 and everything more explicit R18.

In my opinion I don't think a fourth category is necessary. Besides, it would be a pretty large undertaking re-rating the content of "explicit". The numbers have to be in the tens of thousands! Maybe we can revisit that in the future.

I got a head start re-writing the rules for image ratings to be more specific. Would you be interested in reading them or did you have something else in mind?

^I guess all current “explicit” posts could be defaulted to R18 and then users would little by little change the appropriate ones to R15… I don’t think it would be that big of a deal if posts are tagged R18 instead of R15 anyway, so it could work.

Lionmaster15 said:
Awesome, I'll forward this little forum post to the contributor who sent me that E-mail saying I was wrong then.

No need to keep the name secret– can you say who it was? I’d rather not accidentally send him another PM about it.

What I meant with R15 and R18 was basically convert and rename the existing names, then redefine.

We could also lock in ratings (mass applying rating locks and adding additional rules, for example, only senior levels can rate e or q into safe).

System said:
What I meant with R15 and R18 was basically convert and rename the existing names, then redefine.

Ah, so it’s how I understood it at first. Not sure which way would be better.

System said:
for example, only senior levels can rate e or q into safe).

I guess that makes sense, I don’t know if it’s really an issue though, haven’t seen it myself.

Rating images simply with exposed nipples as explicit makes little sense to me. Explicit should be reserved for images what would be deemed pornographic regardless of social norms. safe should be for imaged not pornographic regardless of social norms. Questionable should be for images that could be deemed pornographic in some cultures, but not in others. Images with exposed nipples or sexually suggestive content, but no more, clearly belongs in the questionable category to me. If not, I fail to see what purpose the questionable tag serves and it should be eliminated.

I am ignoring extremely conservative cultures such Muslim countries where woman need to cover their entire bodies, since virtually every image on this site would not be "safe".

I don't know about you, but I consider "Questionable" to be "R15".
I wouldn't really be trigger happy with rating everything explicit if it has nipples in, images should be rated individually with related content in mind imo.

I mean, I know it's more about bringing some order to gallery, but let's be honest. If you're frequenting sites like this one, expect boobs everywhere.

Taking my uploads as an example, I'm trying to avoid uploading obviously explicit stuff. Some might come really close (like https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/4137627 ), but I don't think that anything else would deserve explicit rating.

So there seems to be some support/demand for a "questionable" definition which encompasses female nipple exposure as well as provocative but not explicit material?

System said:
So there seems to be some support/demand for a "questionable" definition which encompasses female nipple exposure as well as provocative but not explicit material?

Yeah, I think it could be a lot more specific.

ALAKTORN said:
No need to keep the name secret– can you say who it was? I’d rather not accidentally send him another PM about it.

namekianer Apparently he comes from another page where questionable includes more.

Lionmaster15 said:

"Uploads without penis, vagina, semen, sex or guro are questionable, not explicit."

Perhaps my english is not good enough (i learned english at school, that was 15 years ago) to explain it.

second try:
Uploads with the Tags penis, vagina, semen, sex or guro are explicit. Other Tags have the rating questionable or safe.
(This is the way how we make it on our Page).
Is that better?

What conclusion have we reached here, then?

It is impossible to come to a consensus with only 8 people talking about it.

But I will offer this for food for thought:

23.8% of posts tagged with nipple are also tagged questionable. 53.4% of posts tagged as sexually suggestive are also tagged questionable.

https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/?tags=sexually_suggestive+rating%3Aq&commit=Search

https://chan.sankakucomplex.com/?tags=nipple+rating%3Aq&commit=Search

The userbase as a whole seems to have came to the conclusion a while ago that questionable images may include nipples and sexually suggestive content. I see no reason to change that interpretation. Is it "questionable" and not "safe" to take a child to the beach where women wear bikinis or take them out in public where women may be wearing skimpy clothes?

I'm right there with you.

I guess the Member of this community too. I found enough Uploads with nipples as explicit (over 1 year ago) but new uploads of the same User are on questionable (and nobody have changed the Tags or Rating).

Ok, I've seen that the rules have been changed to include toplesness and I'll comply with that.
But now I wish to inquire about "down there" because the new rules said full frontal nudity may be included. I could see the butt (without the anus showing) being in questionable since it has always been in the middle area. But I can't help but think of the penis and vagina as always being explicit when in pictures.
Are you implying that full frontal nudity might not have been filtered into explicit or that genitals can be sometimes ok?

Personally I'd follow similar rules as anime and manga in that case.
Even the hottest ecchi anime shows never show exposed crotch, even mosaicly censored. It's always obscured (convenient censoring), rarely "barbie censored" (example: Da capo III).
I'd say.... look around nude tag, maybe with combination of other tag (ex. water). You'll notice that nudity censored in one way or another is rated q, while entirely shown tends to be rated e (though there possibly are exceptions).

So questionable should include nipples, but exposed genitals and explicit sexual activity are explicit?

I haven't looked at implementation yet but I think renaming to PG, R15, and R18 would reduce the ambiguity in something like "questionable"...

I think it could cause more confusion. Everyone would need to be very familiar with the Japanese rating system and culture, and ignore whatever their culture has deemed age appropriate for what Japan has deemed age appropriate. There is no social reference for US and users from some other counties what is appropriate for 15-17 year old, but not a 13-14 year old. Is R18 the equivalent of a R rated movie that people under 18 can't see in the theaters in the US, or adults only pornography? R movies may have exposed breasts, nudity, and simulated sex, but are clearly much tamer than pornographic movies.

There will always be borderline cases and some measure of confusion in any rating system. I don't think the safe, questionable, explicit system can truly be replaced with another 3 tier system that is any more clear or useful.

I agree with keeping the E/Q/S system while having a truly exposed crotch being explicit like TheSwordUser had said. I'm guessing that all the ones that are still in questionable now just haven't been changed.
In fact about a week ago I was searching for combos like "anal_penetration rating:s order:popular" and found a whole bunch of straight out porn in the safe section. I changed them of course but there might be new ones there now if you guys search it now.

Oh yes, i know that...
You can thank the Bots or the geniuses which mistake safe and explicit.

Um, i found another Problem. Its bigger as the rating debate...

Many people dont know what the Tags: cameltoe, pettanko, shimapan, nakadashi (and so on) means.

True, some people don't seem to have a good understanding of all of the tags, but teaching people is harder than setting rules.
I'm sort of a one step at a time kind of guy.

The rules are not the Problem.
They should ask or use G**gle to learn new Tags.

I'm sorry to revive a dead thread, but the ratings system is killing me. The main issue I seem to notice is that (if I remember correctly) if you upload a safe or questionable picture and then forget to change the rating back to explicit, it remains the prior rating change. I've noticed this happen with at least one uploader who was quick to fix it with a thank you. Other users aren't paying attention to their mail or just don't care. Borgling, for instance, has been stuck on Q for over a month and hasn't responded to mail.

Can we fix the default setting after an upload? Also, can you/we/whoever clearly define E/Q/S and post it in uploading instructions, even if there is some grey area? Thank you.

Pretty sure Borgling is a bot, so you won’t get an answer. I don’t understand what you mean with your rating issue. “Questionable” is the default, but you can change it to whatever you want when uploading.

I guess if nothing can be done about Borgling, then that is that. I would, however, like to see some definitive guideline on what constitutes E/Q/S for those of us who are actually putting the effort in to accurately rating things.

I agree with that. Many times it’s hard to decide whether a picture should be “questionable” or “explicit”, and precise rules could help with that.